>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO."

>> I WILL JUST SAY THIS.

THEIR PLAN IS INSANE.

>> FEARS THAT TRUMP PLANS TO RESTART A MASSIVE WAR ON IRAN AFTER THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS.

I GET THE DETAILS FROM "THE NEW YORK TIMES" NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT DAVID SANGER.

>>> NETANYAHU DOWN BUT NOT OUT.

COULD THEY JOIN FORCES TO OUST THE LONGTIME PRIME MINISTER.

I WILL SPEAK TO YOUSEF JABAREEN AND TO ANSHEL PFEFFER.

> >> ONE DAY UNTIL AMERICA GOES TO THE POLLS.

PRESIDENT TRUMP MAY NOT BE ON THE BALLOT BUT HIS POLICIES ARE.

FROM CONGRESS FLIKT FLICT ABROAD TO RISING GAS PRICES.

TIMOTHY SNYDER JOINS ME TO DISCUSS THE IMPLICATIONS.

> >> THE UNITED STATES WILL DO BETTER WHEN EUROPE DOES BETTER.

THE UNITED STATES WILL DO BETTER WHEN CANADA DOES BETTER.

WE WILL DO BETTER WHEN OUR FRIENDS AND ALLIES SUCCEED.

>> KEN GRIFFIN SPEAKS TO WALTER ISAACSON ABOUT THE FUTURE OF A. I. AND WHY HE GIFTED $3 BILLION TO THE ARNEGIE MELLON UNIVERSITY.

>> "AMANPOUR & CO."

IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG AND FROM PBS VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

> >> DID THE STAKES GET HIGHER?

FEARS ARE SWIRLING THAT DONALD TRUMP IS PREPARING TO REIGNITE THE WAR ON IRAN.

REPORTS SUGGESTING HE PLANS TO RESUME STRIKES ONCE THE MIDTERMS ARE OUT OF THE WAY.

THE DEMOCRATIC SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY SAID HE IS BEING BRIEFED ON A POSSIBLE WAR PLAN.

HERE IS HIS REACTION.

>> YOU HEARD A PREVIEW IT WOULD BE A SHORT DURATION PLAN.

I WILL JUST SAY THIS.

THEIR PLAN IS INSANE.

IT WILL LEAD TO DEVASTATING ESCALATION AND THE LIKELY DESTRUCTION OF OUR COMMITMENT TO THE RULE OF LAW.

>> SO NOT VERY ENCOURAGING.

SHORTLY AFTER DELIVERING THESE REMARKS MURPHY WAS HOSPITALIZED AFTER SUFFERING A STROKE BUT IS EXPECTED TO MAKE A FULL RECOVERY.

THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER CONTINUES TO PRESSURE TRUMP TO, QUOTE, FINISH THE JOB ON IRAN.

THEY SPOKE OVER THE WEEKEND.

TRUMP NOT GIVING MUCH AWAY, SIMPLY SAYING THEY HAD, QUOTE, A VERY GOOD TALK.

FORMER FOX NEWS ANCHOR TUCKER CARLSON IS WEIGHING IN.

HE HAS TIED TO MEMBERS OF TRUMP'S CABINET.

HE CLAIMS NETANYAHU IS TRYING TO LEVERAGE THIS RELATIONSHIP TO PRESSURE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO USE A NUCLEAR WEAPON.

IS THIS A REALISTIC SCENARIO?

LET'S BRING IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES" NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT DAVID SANGER.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE NEED SOME COOL, CLEAR HEADS WITH EVIDENCE AND FACTS.

YOU ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS TECHNICAL AND NUCLEAR AND NATIONAL SECURITY CONVERSATION.

DOES IT SOUND AT ALL LIKELY THERE'S A POSSIBILITY OF A NUCLEAR WEAPON BEING USED ON PICKAX MOUNTAIN?

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME BACK ON.

ANY PLAN THAT INVOLVES USING A NUCLEAR WEAPON IN ORDER TO FORCE IRAN TO GIVE UP ITS NUCLEAR PROGRAM STRIKES ME AS ITSELF SUCH A HUGE CONTRADICTION THAT IT MAKES VERY LITTLE SENSE.

FIRST OF ALL, PICKAX MOUNTAIN, WHICH IS BEING WIDELY DISCUSSED HERE, WAS NOT ONE OF THE ORIGINAL TARGETS HIT IN JUNE OF 2025 WHEN THE PRESIDENT TOOK OUT OUR AREAS.

THE LAST IS WHERE WE BELIEVE MOST OF THE NUCLEAR MATERIAL IS STORED.

PICKAX MOUNTAIN IS A NEW FACILITY THAT SOME INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS BELIEVE COULD HOUSE A GOOD NUMBER OF THE CENTRIFUGES THAT IRAN BUILDS TO PURIFY URANIUM.

BUT IF THEY DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE THE MATERIAL THERE, IT'S NOT MUCH OF AN IMMEDIATE DANGER.

OF COURSE, IF THE PRESIDENT ELECTED TO USE A NUCLEAR WEAPON --PEOPLE CLOSE TO HIM SAY TO ME THAT THIS IS NOT AN ACTIVE DISCUSSION --HE WOULD FREE UP OTHERS TO GO USE NUCLEAR WEAPONS AGAINST A TARGET THAT IS NOT ITSELF A NUCLEAR WEAPON.

RIGHT?

SO THINK ABOUT PUTIN'S THREATS TO USE ONE AGAINST UKRAINIAN BASES.

>> YES.

NORTH KOREA, SOUTH KOREA, PAKISTAN, INDIA, IT REALLY OPENS A VERY, VERY -- >> IT'S A LONG LIST.

>> A CAN OF WORMS.

YES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

HOW WOULD YOU READ WHAT SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY SAID?

WE WISH HIM ALL THE BEST.

HE USED THE WORD INSANE, THEN HE SAID INSANITY.

HE SAID, IF WE DID THIS, IT WILL PUT US OUTSIDE THE REALM OF THE RULE OF LAW.

>> HARD TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT BRIEFINGS HE GOT.

OF COURSE, WE WISH HIM A QUICK RECOVERY.

THE BIG QUESTION HERE IS, WHAT IS THE ADMINISTRATION'S OBJECTIVE?

OF COURSE, THAT'S BEEN THE QUESTION SINCE FEBRUARY 28th, WHEN THE PRESIDENT ORDERED THE FIRST STRIKES.

IF HE PRE-ANNOUNCED THIS WOULD BE INTENSE BUT SHORT LIVED, IS HE TRYING TO OVERTHROW THE REGIME?

IS HE SIMPLY TRYING TO DO ENOUGH DAMAGE THAT HE FURTHER SETS BACK THE NUCLEAR PROGRAM?

IS HE TRYING TO CONVINCE THEM TO SIGN ON TO AN AGREEMENT THAT PREVIOUSLY THEY HAVE NOT SIGNED ON TO?

IT'S CONCEIVABLE, DEPENDING ON WHAT HE STRUCK, THAT IT WOULD BE ALL THE MORE REASON FOR THE IRANIANS TO CONCLUDE THEY REALLY DO NEED A NUCLEAR WEAPON OVER THE LONG TERM.

OF COURSE, THAT WOULD BE A DOWNSIDE OF STRIKING PICKAX MOUNTAIN AS WELL.

ON THE OTHER HAND, THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF HAS BEEN THE ONE WHO HAS BEEN THE MOST CAUTIOUS USUALLY ABOUT TALKING ABOUT THE USE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

HE OFF TALKS ABOUT WHAT HE LEARNED ABOUT THEIR DANGERS FROM HIS UNCLE WHO TAUGHT AT M. I. T. HE FREQUENTLY TALKS ABOUT WHAT FEARSOME WEAPONS THEY ARE.

I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE HE WOULD TURN THAT WAY.

BUT I DON'T FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT HE WOULD THINK THAT ONE MORE STRIKE WOULD ACCOMPLISH SOMETHING THAT THE PREVIOUS TWO STRIKES HAVE NOT.

YOU WOULD THINK HE IS BEGINNING TO QUESTION WHETHER NETANYAHU LED HIM IN THE WRONG DIRECTION EIGHT MONTHS AGO.

>> APPARENTLY, THEY ARE STILL TALKING A LOT.

WE ARE TOLD NETANYAHU HAS REGULAR PHONE CALLS, NOT JUST WITH TRUMP BUT PERHAPS WITH HEGSETH AND THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS AND THE HEAD OF SENTCOM.

UNCLEAR BUT TRUMP HAS SAID THEY HAD TOUGH AND DIRECT TALKS RECENTLY.

WE KNOW WHAT NETANYAHU WANTS.

HE WANTS REGIME CHANGE.

WE KNOW THE PERILS OF TRYING TO ACHIEVE THAT FROM JUST AIR POWER.

THERE'S A SPLIT IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

I CAME FROM QATAR WHERE THEY ARE BEING USED AS MEDIATORS THERE TO TRY TO GET EVEN AN INTERIM DEAL TO TRY TO SORT THIS OUT SHORT OF ANOTHER WHOLE ROUND OF WAR.

THE IRANIANS HAVE SIGNALS THAT THEY ARE PREPARED AND THEY REALLY WILL GO AT AMERICAN TARGETS AGAIN IN THE REGION.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING ABOUT THE PROS AND CONS WITHIN THE ADMINISTRATION OF ANOTHER ROUND OF THIS WAR?

>> I THINK THERE ARE SOME KUSHNER, WHITKOFF, THE VICE PRESIDENT WHO HAVE BEEN IN FAVOR OF PR URSUING ANOTHER ROUND OF NEGOTIATIONS, HOPING THAT THE BLOCKADE, THE ECONOMIC STRESS THAT IRAN IS UNDER HAS CHANGED THE BALANCE OF POWER AND GIVEN MORE TO THOSE WHO WANT A NEGOTIATED SETTLEMENT AND LESS TO THE IRGC.

BUT THE HISTORY OF THESE IS USUALLY THAT THE NEGOTIATIONS PROCEED, THE DIPLOMATS GET BACK TO IRAN, THE IRANIAN HARDLINERS SAY, WE HAVE TO MOVE IVING UP ANYTHING NUCLEAR TO THE END OF THE PROCESS.

FOR THE PRESIDENT, IT'S IMPORTANT HE KEPT THE NUCLEAR MATERIAL OUT OF THE COUNTRY AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS.

THAT'S THE HARD PART.

HE IS HAUNTED BY THE FACT THAT THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION IN 2015 AND 2016 DID GET 97% OF IRAN'S NUCLEAR MATERIAL OUT.

THE RUSSIANS ARE WILLING TO TAKE IT AGAIN.

THE QUESTION,WOULD THE IRANIANS UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES GIVE THAT UP BEFORE THE VERY BITTER END, AFTER THEY HAVE HAD ALL OF THEIR SANCTIONS RELIEVED?

>> YEAH.

DAVID, YOU CAN'T AVOID, HE MAY BE HAUNTED BY THAT.

BUT HE PULLED OUT OF THAT DEAL WITH NO ALTERNATIVE.

HERE WE ARE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> DAVID SANGER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

IT'S AN ISSUE BECAUSE THE WAR IS AN ISSUE AS AMERICA GOES TO THE POLLS ON TUESDAY IN ELECTIONS BEING SO CLOSELY WATCHED AROUND THE WORLD.

> >> FROM WAR AND TRADE TO IMMIGRATION AND THE GLOBAL ECONOMY, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SECOND TERM HAS HAD FAR ACHING CONSEQUENCES.

VOTERS HAVE THEIR FIRST CHANCE TO DELIVER A VERDICT.

WHILE AFFORDABILITY IS A MAIN CONCERN, POLLS ALSO SHOW DEEP ANXIETY ABOUT CORRUPTION AND PRESERVING DEMOCRACY.

WHAT DO AMERICANS ACTUALLY WANT?

CAN DEMOCRAT CONVINCE THEM THEY ARE FOR AN ALTERNATIVE.

HISTORIAN TIMOTHY SNYDER HAS BEEN TRAVELING THE COUNTRY LISTENING TO VOTERS.

HE IS JOINING ME FROM KENTUCKY.

WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM.

ALWAYS LIKE TO HEAR WHAT YOU ARE LEARNING FROM THE VOTERS.

YOU HAVE SAID THAT THIS IS A ONE IN A LIFETIME CHANCE FOR CHANGE.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S THE ONCE IN A LIFETIME CHANCE FOR THE DEMOCRATS TO GAIN CONTROL OF BOTH HOUSES.

THEY ARE DOING WELL IN THE POLLS PARTLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE SOME GREAT CANDIDATES AND SOME GREAT THEMES.

BUT THEY ARE MAINLY DOING WELL IN THE POLLS BECAUSE OF THE DRAG OF TRUMP AND THE UNPOPULAR ITY OF HIS POLICIES.

THIS IS A CHANCE FOR THEM.

THE MORE IMPORTANT PART IS THAT THE REASON WHY PEOPLE ARE DISSATISFIED WITH TRUMP HAS TO DO, AS YOU SAID, LARGELY WITH CORRUPTION.

THAT IS THE MASTER ISSUE IN AMERICAN POLITICS RIGHT NOW.

IT CAN BE ADDRESSED.

BUT THE DEMOCRATS WOULD HAVE TO ADDRESS IT.

ONCE THEY WIN, THEY WOULD HAVE TO SAY, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE MONEY OUT OF POLITICS.

WE WILL PUT LEGISLATION UP WHICH GETS MONEY OUT OF ELECTIONS.

WE ARE GOING TO INVESTIGATE PEOPLE WHO MADE MONEY ILLICITLY UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

THEY HAVE TO MOVE ON THAT AND MOVE QUICKLY BECAUSE IF THEY DON'T, THEY WILL LOSE THE CHANCE THAT THEY HAVE.

THE CHANCES THAT CORRUPTION IS THE ISSUE AND RIGHT NOW PEOPLE THINK THAT TRUMP IS MORE CORRUPT THAN THE COUNTRY.

THEY HAVE TO SEIZE THAT CHANCE AND DO SOMETHING, OR ELSE BY THE SPRING WE WILL BE BACK WHERE WE STARTED.

>> TALKING ABOUT THAT, WE CAN'T IGNORE THE FACT THAT YET AGAIN, THE RICH'S MAN IN THE WORLD, ELON MUSK, POURED HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS -- $475 MILLION TO SUPPORT REPUBLICANS.

HE DID THE SAME IN THE 2024 ELECTION.

MONEY TALKED.

IT WORKED.

DO YOU BELIEVE THE POLLS, I GUESS I'M ASKING?

>> I WANT TO DWELL ON THAT ISSUE.

THE IDEA THAT WE HAVE GOTTEN INTO A SITUATION WHERE, FOR EXAMPLE, IN A TEXAS ELECTION, MR.

TALARICO HAS TO FACE NOT ONLY MUSK POURING MONEY INTO THE RACE AGAINST HIM, BUT ALSO WE HAVE VLADIMIR PUTIN FUNDING SOCIAL MEDIA AGAINST HIM.

THIS IS NOT WHAT THE FOUNDING FATHERS HAD IN MIND.

ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS GO BACK TO WHERE WE WERE 20 YEARS AGO WHERE CONTRIBUTIONS WERE LIMITED.

WE WOULD BE IN A SANER COUNTRY.

THE COUNTRY WHICH WOULD GENERATE BETTER POLICY.

AMERICANS ARE JUST --WE ARE MORE REASONABLE THAN THE MONEY IS.

IF AMERICAN PREFERENCES WERE REFLECTED IN POLICY, WE WOULD HAVE GOOD THINGS WE ARE NOT GETTING IN WHICH BIG MONEY IS PREVENTING US FROM GETTING.

AS TO THE POLLS, I TEND TO THINK THE POLLS PROBABLY UNDERSTATE SUPPORT FOR DEMOCRATS IN THE SENSE THAT I THINK A LOT OF WHAT'S GOING ON NOW IS THAT WE HAVE CONFUSED REPUBLICAN VOTERS WHO THOUGHT MR.

TRUMP WAS GOING TO KEEP THEM OUT OF WARS AND KEEP PRICES DOWN.

HE HAS GOTTEN THEM INTO A STUPID WAR WHICH HE MANAGED TO LOSE AND TO EXTEND IN SUCH A WAY AS TO KEEP PRICES UP.

>> PROFESSOR, I'M GOING TO PLAY A SOUND BITE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL FROM TALARICO, WHO IS FIGHTING A SEAT THAT'S CONSIDERED REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE SENATE RACE.

HE ADDRESSES THESE ISSUES.

>> THEY VOTED TO END THE WARS.

NOW WE HAVE A NEW CORRUPT WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST THAT'S DRIVING UP GAS AND DIESEL PRICES.

TEXANS VOTED TO LOWER HEALTHCARE COSTS.

CORRUPT POLITICAL DEALS HAVE GUTTED OUR HEALTHCARE AND SENT PREMIUMS SKYROCKETING, ALL TO GIVE TAX CUTS TO BILLIONAIRES.

WE HAVE AN AFFORDABILITY CRISIS BECAUSE WE HAVE A CORRUPTION CRISIS.

>> HE LINKED, LIKE YOU DID, THEM VERY CLOSELY.

OBVIOUSLY, THE DEMOCRATS ARE PAYING ATTENTION.

WE HEARD DEMOCRATIC LEADERS SAY THAT THEIR FIRST JOB IF THEY WIN HAS TO BE AFFORDABILITY AND CORRUPTION.

TACKLING THOSE ISSUES.

CAN THEY DO THAT JOB?

YOU TALKED ABOUT THE CORRUPTION.

CAN THEY MAKE LIFE MORE AFFORDABLE FOR ACTUAL CITIZENS?

TRUMP HAS MADE IT GREAT FOR THE RICH PEOPLE, NOT ORDINARY CITIZENS.

>> YEAH.

HE MADE IT GREAT FOR 330 PEOPLE IN A COUNTRY OF 330 MILLION.

TALARICO OBJECTIVELY HAS IT RIGHT.

I'M HAPPY TO HEAR HIM SAY THAT.

EVIDENCE FROM ELECTIONS AROUND THE WORLD SHOWS TWO THINGS.

THE FIRST IS THAT IF YOU WANT TO WIN, YOU HAVE TO PUT AFFORDABILITY AND DEMOCRACY TOGETHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE TOGETHER.

THE MORE DEMOCRATIC THE COUNTRY IS, THE BETTER OUTCOMES YOU ARE GOING TO GET AS A VOTER.

SO WHEN IT COMES TO POLICY, YOU CAN'T BE, I'M FOR AFFORDABILITY AND NOT TALK ABOUT DEMOCRACY.

YOU CAN'T ACTUALLY MAKE THE RADICAL CHANGES YOU NEED TO GET PRICES DOWN AND TO HAVE BETTER PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND HAVE BETTER ROADS AND BETTER HEALTHCARE WITHOUT TACK LING THE CORRUPTION.

YOU HAVE TO MAKE RADICAL CHANGES TO MAKE POLICIES WHICH WILL MAKE PEOPLE'S LIVES BETTER.

>> OF COURSE, I THINK WE ALL KNOW THAT THE SUPREME COURT ENABLED THIS LEVEL OF MONEY TO BE IN AMERICAN POLITICS.

BEYOND THAT, THERE'S A BIG ISSUE OF ISLAMAPHOBIA.

MANY, MANY --BASICALLY ANTI-MUSLIM CAMPAIGNING, EVEN FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP, ESPECIALLY AGAINST THE SENATE CANDIDATE IN MICHIGAN.

HERE IS WHAT TRUMP SAID.

>> IF THE DEMOCRATS WIN, THEY WILL OPEN THE FLOODGATES AND INVITE JIHADISTS WHO ARE CREATING A NIGHTMARE OF VIOLENCE AND TERROR UNTIL YOU CANNOT EVEN HAVE A CHRISTMAS.

>> AS A HISTORIAN, YOU HAVE SEEN WAVES OF THIS KIND OF ISLAMAPHOBIA BEFORE IN THE UNITED STATES.

IT'S REALLY BEING WEAPONIZED RIGHT NOW.

TRUMP WAS CAMPAIGNING THERE FOR MIKE ROGERS, HIS REPUBLICAN OPPONENT.

WE JUST HAVE SEEN -- ANYWAY, THE WOMAN, A DEMOCRAT, SWIFT HER SUPPORT TO MIKE ROGERS.

IT'S REALLY GETTING UGLY.

>> IT'S GETTING UGLY, BUT ALSO IF WE LOOK AT THE POLLS SOBERLY --I'M BASING THIS ON TALKING TO FOLKS --I THINK PEOPLE ARE SEEING THROUGH IT.

THE BILLIONAIRE CAMPAIGN WHICH HAS NO POSITIVE AGENDA AT ALL BUT WHICH ONLY POINTS AT MUSLIMS OR WOMEN OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE AS THE DANGER --I'M COMING OUT NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING THERE.

IT'S WITHOUT CONTENT.

IT'S JUST, WE'RE GOING TO PICK ON HER BECAUSE SHE'S A WOMAN, BECAUSE SHE'S SUCCEEDED AGAINST DIFFICULTIES.

THESE ADS ARE SO EMPTY.

I THINK THE POLLING IS GOING TO REFLECT THAT.

AS TO MR.

TRUMP, I THINK IT'S PRETTY IMPORTANT TO NOTICE THAT HE IS HURTING REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES RATHER THAN HELPING THEM.

DEMOCRATS DO CONTROL BOTH HOUSES, IT'S PRETTY IMPORTANT NOT TO THINK JUST ABOUT WHAT MR.

TRUMP IS SAYING OR DOING BUT TO ENACT THE POLICIES WHICH TAKE THE RUG OUT FROM UNDER FUTURE PEOPLE LIKE HIM.

HE IS NOT JUST GOING TO BE A LAME DUCK.

HE IS GOING TO BE INCREASINGLY WEAK.

>> FINALLY, I'M FASCINATED, BECAUSE THIS IS YOUR LIFE'S WORK ABOUT DEMOCRACY AND ANTI-AUTHORITARIANISM.

A MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS PUT PRESERVING DEMOCRACY VERY, VERY HIGH UP ON THEIR LIST OF PRIORITIES.

69% OF REPUBLICANS, 85% OF DEMOCRATS.

I WAS REALLY SHOCKED AND IMPRESSED BY THAT.

IT DOESN'T USUALLY FEATURE.

HOW DO YOU ASSESS THAT GIVEN ALL THE CONVERSATIONS YOU HAVE HAD AS YOU ARE ON YOUR INVESTIGATION AROUND THE STATES?

>> I AM GOING TO SAY THAT I THINK SOMETIMES THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE OUT IN FRONT OF THEIR POLITICIANS, AND THEY CAN BE OUT IN FRONT OF THE POLITICIANS WHO ARE ABOUT TO WIN AN ELECTION.

I THINK THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE --NOT JUST CONVERSATIONS, BUT AS YOU SAY THE POLLING SUPPORTS THIS, THEY NOT ONLY RECOGNIZE THEIR DEMOCRACY IS IN DANGER, BUT THEY RECOGNIZE IT'S IN DANGER SPECIFICALLY FROM EXTREMELY WEALTHY CORPORATIONS AND EXTREMELY WEALTHY INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE SLOWING DOWN THE ECONOMY FOR EVERYBODY ELSE.

I THINK THEY PUT TWO AND TWO TOGETHER.

PEOPLE REALIZE THAT FOR THE AMERICAN DREAM TO BE REAL, WE HAVE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF ELICIT COLLUSION, CORRUPTION, SELF-DEALING.

SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT THAT EXPRESSES.

PEOPLE ARE REALIZING THAT DEMOCRACY ISN'T JUST AN EMPTY SLOGAN AND IT'S NOT THE STATUS QUO.

IT'S SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO FIGHT TO HAVE MORE OF, NOT ONLY BECAUSE IT GIVE U. S. MORE FREEDOM, BUT BECAUSE IT ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE A MORE DECENT AND DIGNIFIED LIFE.

>> IT'S SO INTERESTING.

I WOULD LOVE GO INTO THAT LATER MORE.

IT'S REFLECTING WHAT'S HAPPENED IN SERBIA, IN HUNGARY EARLIER THIS YEAR.

THERE ARE SOME COUNTRIES IN EUROPE WHERE YOUNG PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO THE VOTE AGAINST UTHORITARIAN ISM AND FOR DEMOCRAT SIX THANKS FOR NOW.

> >> NOW TO ISRAEL.

IF REIGNITING THE WAR IS AN IDEA BEING PUSHED BY THE PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU, WILL IT STAND IF HE CANNOT FORM A GOVERNING COALITION AND IS OUT OF OFFICE?

FOR NOW, HE REMAINS IN CONTROL AFTER LAST WEEK'S ELECTION, NEITHER HE NOR HIS RIVAL GADI EISENKOT SECURED ENOUGH VOTES TO FORM A GOVERNMENT.

THEY COULD BE VITAL IN ANY MOVE TO OUST NETANYAHU AFTER WINNING A RECORD NUMBER OF SEATS IN THE CAN KNESSET.

GADI IS NOW OPENING THE DOOR.

MAJOR HURDLES REMAIN WITH CONDITIONS BEING SET OUT BY BOTH SIDES.

THE LEADER OF THE ARAB COALITION IN YOUSEF JABAREEN.

HE IS JOINING ME FROM NAZARETH.

WELCOME.

CONGRATULATIONS.

YOU WENT OUT.

YOU GOT YOUR PEOPLE.

IT WAS HISTORIC TURNOUT.

YOU HAVE WON AN UNPRECEDENTED NUMBER OF SEATS.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH THEM?

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

IN FACT, THAT WAS REALLY HISTORICAL ELECTION FOR THE ARAB COMMUNITY IN ISRAEL.

IT HAS BEEN A RECORD IN THE TURNOUT, ABOUT 80% HAS BEEN THE TURNOUT IN OUR COMMUNITY.

THIS BASICALLY HAS RESULTED IN A VERY HISTORICAL REPRESENTATION OF ARAB MEMBERS OF THE KNESSET.

THE JOINT LIST IS NOW REPRESENTED WITH 11 MEMBERS IN THE PARLIAMENT.

THE MOST MAYBE IMPORTANT FACT HERE IS THAT THE -- OUR 11 MEMBERS ARE VERY VITAL AND VERY DECISIVE IN ANY VOTING IN THE KNESSET.

THE IMMEDIATE RESULT OF THIS TURNOUT OF OUR COMMUNITY IS THE FACT THAT NETANYAHU BASICALLY WAS DEFEATED.

HE DOESN'T HAVE THE MAJORITY THAT HE USED TO HAVE BEFORE THE ELECTION.

HE USED TO HAVE 68 SEATS.

NOW HE ENDED THIS ELECTION WITH 53.

BASICALLY, HE WAS DEFEATED IN THIS ELECTION.

HOPEFULLY, WE WILL BE ABLE TO DEFEAT HIM ALSO NOW IN THE COMING FEW WEEKS WHEN WE COME TO THE VOTING IN THE KNESSET ITSELF.

>> MR.

JABAREEN, YOU KNOW WELL THAT NETANYAHU IS A VERY CANNY OPERATOR.

HE HAS BEEN DOING THIS A LONG TIME.

HE CAN FORTH COALITIONS.

EVEN WHEN HE LOSES, HE WINS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU NEED TO DO TO MAKE SURE, AS YOU SAY, THAT YOU DON'T LET HIM WIN ANOTHER TERM IN OFFICE?

WILL YOU GO INTO COALITION WITH THE GADI EISENKOT JEWISH OPPOSITION BLOCK?

>> I BELIEVE FIRST OF ALL THAT THIS IS REALLY HISTORICAL MOMENT AND HISTORICAL OPPORTUNITY TO OUST NETANYAHU AND BASICALLY TO REMOVE HIM THIS TIME.

THE JOINT LIST HAS A DECISIVE POLITICAL POWER IN THE KNESSET.

WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS THAT WE HAVE A CLEAR AND STRONG INTEREST TO Y EMOVE NETANYAHU.

THIS IS OF THE CURRENT OPPOSITION PARTY.

NOW THE CURRENT OPPOSITION LED BY EISENKOT.

WE ARE IN THE JOINT LIST SAYING THAT --LOOKING AT THE POLITICAL SITUATION AND THE POLITICAL STANCES OF THE OPPOSITION LEADERS.

WE DON'T THINK THAT WE COULD BE PART OF AN ISRAELI COALITION.

HOWEVER, WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS THAT WE COULD BE --COULD PLAY THE ROLE OF SAFETY NET, WHICH MEANS TO SUPPORT A NEW COALITION FROM OUTSIDE TO PREVENT BASICALLY NETANYAHU FROM A CONTINUAL IN HIS RULING BY USING OUR POLITICAL POWER.

I THINK THIS IS POSSIBLE.

IN FACT, IN THE GOVERNMENT IN 1992 AND 1996, THE ARAB PARTIES PLAYED THIS ROLE OF SUPPORTING GOVERNMENT FROM OUTSIDE.

THAT ENABLED TO START THE PEACE PROCESS WITH THE PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP THAT HAS CHANGED ALSO THE GOVERNMENT POLICY TOWARD ARAB CITIZENS IN ISRAEL.

SO WE HOPE THAT THIS IS ABOUT TIME.

BASICALLY TO DO SIMILAR POLITICAL ACT BY BASICALLY MAKING SURE THAT NETANYAHU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO CONTINUE FOR ANOTHER TERM WITH ANOTHER RACIST AND DANGEROUS AND BLOODY GOVERNMENT AS WE HAVE WITNESSED IN THE LAST TERM.

>> MR.

JABAREEN, JUST FOR THOSE WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND, WHY WOULD YOU NOT GO INTO COALITION AND ACTUALLY BE IN GOVERNMENT AND DO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING YOU WANT TO DO?

IS IT BECAUSE CONDITIONS ARE BEING PUT ON YOU?

IS IT BECAUSE, I DON'T KNOW, GADI EISENKOT --NOBODY TALKS ABOUT MOVING TOWARD A PALESTINIAN STATE.

WHAT IS THE REASON YOU WOULD NOT JOIN A COALITION?

OR DID I HEAR YOU RIGHT?

>> YEAH, THE MAIN REASON FOR OUR STANCE ON THAT IS THAT ISRAEL CONTINUES TO OCCUPY THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE AND THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES OF 1965 --'67, SORRY.

THIS IS THE WEST BANK AND THE GAZA AND EAST JERUSALEM.

IF WE JOIN THE COALITION, THAT MEANS THAT WE WILL TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR POLITICAL ACTS OF THE GOVERNMENT, INCLUDING BASICALLY THE CONTINUATION OF THIS OCCUPATION AND MILITARY ACTIONS AGAINST OUR PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.

SO WE HAVE A DIFFERENT AGENDA CALLING FOR BASICALLY ENDING THE OCCUPATION, BASICALLY WE ARE SAYING THAT THIS IS THE ONLY PLATFORM THAT COULD LEAD FOR PEACE IN OUR AREA.

SO AS LONG AS WE DON'T SEE THAT, THE NEW GOVERNMENT IS ADOPTING THIS POSITION BY RECOGNIZING THE PALESTINIAN RIGHT FOR INDEPENDENCE, WE CANNOT REALLY JOIN FORCES WITH THIS COALITION.

HOWEVER, IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE THE GOAL OF OUSTING NETANYAHU, WE WILL BE READY AS WE ALREADY DECLARED TO COORDINATE WITH THE NEXT COALITION IN ORDER BASICALLY TO TRY TO MAKE A CHANGE, IN ORDER TO TRY TO START MAYBE A NEW DIRECTION IN ISRAELI POLITICS BASED ON ALTERNATIVE WAYS, ALTERNATIVE POLICIES.

NETANYAHU'S GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN I THINK VERY DANGEROUS NOT JUST FOR ISRAELIS AND ARABS AND PALESTINIANS, BUT FOR THE ENTIRE REGION.

WE SEE NOW OPPORTUNITY BASICALLY TO OUST NETANYAHU HOPEFULLY.

THE OPPOSITION LEADERS IN ISRAEL WOULD HAVE THE COURAGE TO FOLLOW THE DECISION BACK IN '92 AND TO SAY THAT THEY ARE READY TO COOPERATE WITH THE ARAB PARTIES.

PROBABLY YOU KNOW THAT IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS, WE HAVE BEEN WITNESSING INCITEMENT AND BASICALLY TARGETING ARAB POLITICAL FORCES AND TRYING TO DELEGITAMIZE.

IT'S TIME TO CHANGE TO DISCOURSE GUARANTEE EQUAL CITIZENSHIP AND MAKE A NEW DIRECTION FOR EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ARAB MINORITY IN ISRAEL.

>> I BELIEVE YOU MAKE UP 20% OF THE POPULATION OF ISRAEL.

YOU ARE ISRAELI CITIZENS, ARAB CITIZENS OF ISRAEL.

20% OF THE POPULATION.

AS YOU SAID THE PRIME MINISTER HAS BEEN TRYING TO -- MAKING FALSE ACQUISITIONS OF STEALING VOTES, ET CETERA.

WHAT I WANT TO KNOW FROM YOU IS, WHAT IS IT LIKE AS AN ARAB CITIZEN OF ISRAEL LIVING THERE?

WHAT HAVE THE LAST FEW YEARS BEEN LIKE?

WHAT IS IT LIKE IN YOUR TOWNS AND VILLAGES AND WORKPLACES?

>> BEING TREATED AS A SECOND, MAYBE A THIRD CLASS CITIZEN.

NOT BEING SAFE WHEN GOING TO JEWISH AREAS BECAUSE OF INCITEMENT.

SOMETIMES PHYSICAL ATTACKS.

GENERALLY SPEAKING, THERE IS A CONSTANT AND SYSTEMATIC DISCRIMINATORY POLICIES AGAINST ARAB COMMUNITIES.

THERE'S DISCRIMINATION IN LOCATION OF RESOURCES, LOCATION OF BUDGET FOR ARAB.

THERE ARE RACIST LAWS THAT TARGET ARAB COMMUNITY IN ISRAEL AND ARAB CITIZENS.

THERE'S AN OPERATION OF OUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

ALL OF THIS HAS IED IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, INCLUDING THE DEMOLITION NOT JUST IN INDIVIDUAL HOMES WITHIN ARAB LOCALITIES, BUT EVEN SOME VILLAGES IN THE SOUTH OF ISRAEL.

OUR LIFE IN THE LAST FEW YEARS HAS BEEN VERY MISERABLE.

THIS IS EXACTLY THE REASON WHY THE TURNOUT HAS BEEN VERY HIGH IN THE LAST ELECTION, BECAUSE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAVE THIS POLITICAL TOOL TO CHANGE OUR REALITY AND TO STRUGGLE FOR A BETTER FUTURE FOR US, BUT GENERALLY FOR EVERY CITIZEN IN ISRAEL.

>> IT'S BEEN AMAZING TALKING TO YOU.

OBVIOUSLY, WHAT HAPPENS IN YOUR REGION AFFECTS EVERYBODY.

EVERYBODY IS WATCHING.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, MR.

JABAREEN, FOR BEING ON.

> >> FOR MORE ANALYSIS ABOUT NETANYAHU'S MOVES, LET'S BRING IN HIS BIOGRAPHER, THE ISRAELI JOURNALIST, ANSHEL PFEFFER.

HE IS JOINING ME FROM JERUSALEM.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

WHAT STRUCK YOU ABOUT MR.

JABAREEN?

I DON'T KNOW.

MAYBE YOU HEARD BEFORE, BUT HE SAID HE WOULDN'T GO INTO A COALITION, THEY WON'T GO IN.

THEY WILL ACT AS CAUCUSING WITH THE OPPOSITION.

>> THAT'S BEEN THEIR POSITION FOR A FEW WEEKS NOW.

THEY MADE IT CLEAR A COUPLE OF WEEKS BEFORE THE ELECTION THAT THEY WOULD PROVIDE A SAFETY NET TO A COALITION WHICH WOULD REPLACE NETANYAHU.

BUT THEY THEMSELVES WOULDN'T BE PARTY TO THAT COALITION.

BASICALLY, WHAT WE HAVE HERE NOW IS 11 DIFFERENT PARTIES IN THE KNESSET.

EACH OF THEM COMING WITH A DIFFERENT AGENDA AND DIFFERENT CONDITIONS OF HOW THEY COULD COOPERATE WITH EACH OTHER.

SOME WOULD BE TOGETHER IN A COALITION.

SOME WOULD BE SUPPORTING FROM OUTSIDE.

SOME WOULD BE AS MR.

JABAREEN SAID A SAFETY NET.

BOTH EISENKOT AND NETANYAHU ARE TRYING TO TAKE THE PIECES TOGETHER AND CREATE THEIR OWN COALITION.

THIS CONVERSATION AS YOU SAY WAS FASCINATING.

IT SHOWED HOW WITH ONE PARTY THE ISSUE IS SO COMPLEX.

YOU NEED TO BRING FIVE OR SIX DIFFERENT PARTIES TOGETHER TO GET TO THAT MAJORITY.

WE ARE IN FOR WEEKS PERHAPS MONTHS OF THE NEGOTIATIONS.

>> OKAY.

IN THE MEANTIME, THERE'S A LOT ELSE GOING ON.

THERE'S A IDEA OF RESTARTING THE WAR ON IRAN.

WE HAVE HAD ALL THESE BITS OF INFORMATION, LOTS OF CALLS BETWEEN NETANYAHU AND TRUMP AND NETANYAHU AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING THERE ABOUT STARTING A NEW ROUND OF ATTACKS ON IRAN?

WHAT WOULD THEY LOOK LIKE?

WHAT'S THE POINT?

>> I AM HEARING FROM MY SOURCES A LOT OF PREPARATIONS ARE UNDER FOOT.

SOME NIGHTS YOU CAN JUST HEAR IT IN THE SKY, THE LEVEL OF AIRCRAFT ACTIVITY WHICH SOUND LIKE EITHER OPERATIONS OR MAJOR MANEUVERS IN TRAINING TOWARDS AN OPERATION.

WE'RE HEARING IT FROM SOURCES IN THE DEFENSE ESTABLISHMENT.

THE REAL QUESTION IS, WHAT'S WOULD BE THE POINT?

DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN NOW FOR MONTHS IN THIS SORT OF WEIRD NON-TALK BUT STILL TALKING KIND OF NEGOTIATION WITH THE IRANIANS.

OCCASIONALLY, THERE'S SOME STRIKE.

THERE HASN'T BEEN FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS.

THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON NOW FOR OVER SEVEN OR EIGHT MONTHS.

ON THE ISRAELI SIDE, SINCE APRIL WHEN TRUMP ANNOUNCED HIS FIRST CEASE- FIRE WITH IRAN, BASICALLY HE ORDERED NETANYAHU TO SIT ON THE SIDELINE, EVEN WHEN AMERICA DID ATTACK, ISRAEL WASN'T ALLOWED TO TAKE PART.

THE QUESTION IS, WILL THAT REMAIN THE SITUATION IF TRUMP DECIDES TO LAUNCH WHAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM VARIOUS SOURCES WHAT HE IS CALLING RIES OF ATTACKS?

TRUMP IS LOOKING AT THIS AS STRENGTHENING HIS HAND IN NEGOTIATIONS.

NETANYAHU IS TALKING ABOUT A DECISIVE FINAL STRIKE ON IRAN WHICH WILL BRING DOWN THE REGIME.

I DON'T SEE RECONCILING THESE DIFFERENT AIMS THAT TRUMP AND NETANYAHU HAVE, WHICH IS WHY I'M NOT SURE THAT WE WILL SEE A JOINT STRIKE.

EVEN IF AMERICA DOES STRIKE, I'M NOT CERTAIN HE WILL ALLOW NETANYAHU.

NETANYAHU IS VERY CLEAR THAT THIS IS HIS LAST MISSION.

THIS IS WHY HE NEEDS TO REMAIN PRIME MINISTER.

OF COURSE, IF YOU GO BACK TO THE ISSUE WITH WHICH WE BEGAN THE INTERVIEW, THE NEGOTIATIONS TO FORM A COALITION, THIS IS SOMETHING WHICH HE HOPES TO USE TO PRESSURE SOME OF THE OPPOSITION TO JOIN HIM SOMEHOW IN AN EMERGENCY COALITION TO CONTINUE PURSUING THAT WAR WITH IRAN.

WE ARE HEARING FROM EISENKOT AND OTHER LEADERS OF THE OPPOSITION A LOT OF SKEPTICISM.

THEY ARE SAYING THAT THEY WILL SUPPORT ONLY MILITARY OPERATIONS WHICH ARE WARRANTED BY REAL INTELLIGENCE AND REAL STRATEGY.

WE ARE HEARING SIMILAR THINGS FROM THE SENIOR GENERALS IN THE IDF.

THEY DON'T FEEL THAT THIS IS THE MOMENT FOR AN ATTACK ON IRAN.

>> THAT IS FASCINATING.

WE DID HEAR A REPORT THAT NETANYAHU WANTED TO DO THIS, EVEN BEFORE THE U. S. MIDTERMS.

IT WAS THE IDF SENIOR STAFF WHO BASICALLY SAID THERE'S NO REASON DO THAT NOW.

THAT WAS REPORTED.

I FIND WHAT YOU HAVE JUST SAID REALLY FASCINATING.

THE OTHER THING IS, REGARDING DOMESTIC BUT ALSO REGIONAL POLITICS, NONE OF THE OPPOSITION LEADERS, NONE OF THE COALITION THAT EISENKOT COALITION, NONE HAVE TALKED ABOUT A POLITICAL RESOLUTION, A PALESTINIAN STATE.

DO YOU EXPECT THAT TO HOLD?

IS THAT REALLY NOW SO BAKED INTO ISRAELI POLITICS THAT THE WHOLE IDEA IS OFF THE TABLE?

>> IT'S NOT BAKED THERE FOREVER.

BUT IT IS CERTAINLY NOT IN THE CARDS RIGHT NOW.

WE'RE STILL, FROM THE PERSPECTIVE AND PSYCHOLOGY OF MANY ISRAELIS STILL IN THE IMMEDIATE POST OCTOBER 7 ERA.

EVEN THOUGH IT'S BEEN THREE YEARS.

THE FACT THE GOVERNMENT HASN'T CHANGED.

THERE HASN'T BEEN A NATIONAL RECKONING.

THE FACT NETANYAHU HAS KEPT ISRAEL IN THIS LIMBO OF WAR.

IF IT'S NOT WAR, IT'S A TEMPORARY CEASE-FIRE SITUATION HASN'T ALLOWED FOR THE PROCESSING OF THE OCTOBER 7 TRAUMA.

YOU NEED TO END THE WAR BEFORE YOU CAN EVEN START BEGINNING DID I DIPLOMATIC PROCESS.

ISRAEL IS STILL IN WAR WITH IRAN AND LEBANON.

UNTIL THESE ARE RESOLVED --WE ARE NOT SEEING ANY MOVE TOWARDS A RESOLUTION, CERTAINLY NOT WITH NETANYAHU'S GOVERNMENT.

UNTIL WE HAVE A RESOLUTION, IN THE SHORT AND MID-TERM, I DON'T THINK WE CAN GET TO A MORE SIGNIFICANT DIPLOMATIC PROCESS.

IT'S A QUESTION YOU WILL HAVE TO ASK I DON'T KNOW MONTHS OR A YEAR DOWN THE ROAD WHERE WE KNOW GAZA AND LEBANON AND PERHAPS THE IRAN WARS HAVE ENDED.

>> OKAY.

WELL, ANSHEL PFEFFER, THINGS ARE AS UNCERTAIN AS EVER.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

> >> ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IS RESHAPING SOCIETY AS AN UNPRECEDENTED SPEED.

AT MANY COMPAN IES Y Y IES FACE AN UNCERTAIN FUTURE, OUR NEXT GUEST BELIEVES IT BEGINS WITH KEN GRIFFIN.

HE IS THE CEO OF CITADEL.

HE ARGUED FOR THE U. S. TO EMBRACE RESKILLING THE WORKFORCE FOLLOWING HIS DONATION TA O THE CARNEGIE MELLON UNIVERSITY.

>> WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> WALTER, IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE TODAY.

>> YOU JUST ANNOUNCED A $3 BILLION GIFT TO CARNEGIE MELLON FOR ITS CAMPUS IN PITTSBURGH BUT ALSO TO BUILD A NEW CAMPUS IN MIAMI.

WHY DID YOU DO THAT NOW?

WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF SUCH A GIFT?

>> WALTER, I RECENTLY MADE A $3 BILLION INVESTMENT IN CARNEGIE MELLON UNIVERSITY.

CMU IS ONE OF OUR NATION'S FINEST INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER EDUCATION.

THEY LEAD THE WORLD IN COMPUTER SCIENCE, IN A.I., IN ROBOTICS, IN FIELDS IMPORTANT TO THE SUCCESS OF OUR COUNTRY FOR THE 21st CENTURY.

IT'S A PRIVILEGE TO SUPPORT THE INCREDIBLE LEADERSHIP TEAM, FACULTY AND STUDENTS OF CMU.

>> YOU MOVED DOWN TO MIAMI TWO OR THREE YEARS AGO, FOUR YEARS AGO FROM CHICAGO.

WHY DO YOU THINK MIAMI IS GOING TO BE THE NEW CENTER FOR TECHNOLOGY AND FINANCE?

>> MIAMI IS A CITY THAT IS ENJOYING UNPARALLELED GROWTH AND PROSPERITY.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO LIVE IN A CITY WITH SO MUCH OPTIMISM, SO MUCH ENERGY.

THIS IS A CITY THAT'S DRAWING COMPANIES FROM ACROSS THE COUNTRY TO HERE.

PALANTIR MOVED HERE.

THE CITY HAS AN INCREDIBLE DRAW.

INCREDIBLE WORKFORCE.

CMU MIAMI WILL BE PART OF THAT STORY.

IT WILL ANCHOR HUNDREDS OF STARTUPS IN THE AREA ROBOTICES, SOFTWARE, A. I.

>> ONE OF THE REASONS FLORIDA IS BOOMING IS THAT IT HAS NO INCOME TAX.

IT CUTS TAXES.

OF COURSE, AROUND THE COUNTRY, YOU SEE STATES EITHER COMPETING TO TRY TO DRAW BUSINESS LOWERING TAXES, BUT SOMETIMES THAT DETRACTS FROM THE ABILITY OF THE GOVERNMENT TO GET THINGS DONE.

DO YOU WORRY ABOUT A COMPETITION AMONG STATES TO SEE WHO CAN BE THE LOWEST TAX STATE?

>> I THINK TAXES ARE VERY, VERY SMALL OF THE SUCCESS OF FLORIDA'S STORY.

I LIVED IN CHICAGO.

YOU DID NOT WANT TO LEAVE YOUR HOUSE AT 9:00 AT NIGHT TO WALK DOWN THE STREET.

IT SIMPLY WAS UNSAFE.

FLORIDA IS A GOVERNMENT THAT WORKS FOR ITS PEOPLE, FOCUSED ON GREAT SCHOOLS, GREAT UNIVERSITIES, SAFE STREETS.

DELIVERING HIGH QUALITY SERVICES TO ITS PEOPLE AT A VERY COST-EFFECTIVE PRICE POINT.

HERE IN MIAMI, WE HAVE A NEW DEMOCRATIC MAYOR.

I MET WITH HER A FEW WEEKS AGO.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT SHE'S MOST PROUD OF?

SHE'S CUTTING THE TIME FOR PERMITTING FROM 800 DAYS FOR MULTI-FAMILY HOUSING TO JUST OVER 100 DAYS.

SHE KNOWS THAT WILL DRIVE DOWN THE COST OF HOUSING.

SHE IS FOCUSED ON HOW DO I MAKE THE STATE MORE AFFORDABLE, HOW DO I MAKE THE EXPERIENCE FOR DEVELOPERS MORE SUCCESSFUL?

HOW DO I MAKE THE PEOPLE OF FLORIDA BETTER OFF?

THAT ETHOS, THAT COMPETITION TO DELIVER SERVICES FOR OUR PEOPLE SHOULD BE THE MINDSET OF MAYORS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> YOU GOT INTO SOMEWHAT OF A CONTENTION WITH MAYOR MOM DANI.

>> THIS TAX IS DESIGNED FOR THE RICHEST OF THE RICH.

>> LEAVING ASIDE HIM SINGLING YOU OUT, DO YOU THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA OR A BAD IDEA TO HAVE THINGS LIKE A TAX ON PEOPLE WITH SECOND HOMES AS A WAY TO RAISE REVENUE?

>> LOOK, I THINK EVERY GOVERNOR AND EVERY MAYOR SHOULD THINK LONG AND HARD ABOUT THE TAX POLICIES THAT RAISE REVENUES THEY NEED TO PROVIDE NEEDED SERVICES AND ENCOURAGE GROWTH AND PROSPERITY.

THE MAYOR, IF HE DID A LITTLE BIT OF WORK, WOULD REALIZE I WAS ONE OF NEW YORK'S LARGEST TAXPAYERS.

WE HAVE 2,000 AND CHANGE EMPLOYEES IN NEW YORK.

UNDER HOW NEW YORK TAX LAWS WORK, I DO PAY TAXES IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK.

HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND BASIC TAX POLICY OF THE STATE IN WHICH HE ACTS AS THE MAYOR OF THE LARGEST CITY.

I THINK ALL MAYORS, ALL GOVERNORS NEED TO TAKE A P BACK.

WHAT ARE THE MEANS TO RAISE REVENUES?

WHAT ARE THE RIGHT STRATEGIES TO ENCOURAGE JOB GROWTH?

HOW DO WE MAKE THE PIE BIGGER FOR ALL?

>> WHAT ARE THOSE METHODS FOR RAISING REVENUES THAT YOU THINK WOULD HELP GROW PROSPERITY AS WELL?

>> GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE UNITED STATES HAS A PROGRESSIVE TAX CODE.

IT'S A THOUGHTFUL TAX CODE.

IT'S A REALITY THAT IT MATCHES THE NEEDS OF OUR COUNTRY FOR REVENUE.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WE CAN DO IS NOT PLAY FAVORITES ACROSS INDUSTRIES, NOT PLAY FAVORITES ACROSS PARTS OF OUR POPULATION.

WE WANT TO HAVE A TAX CODE THAT PEOPLE VIEW AS TRANSPARENT, FAIR, EQUITABLE.

DOESN'T PLAY FAVORITES.

PEOPLE SAY, THE U. S. TAX SYSTEM IS EQUITABLE.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM OF A GROWING INEQUALITY OF WEALTH?

IF SO, HOW SHOULD THAT BE TACKLED?

>> IF YOU LOOK AT THE FORBES 400, WHAT'S REMARKABLE IS IT IS ALMOST ALL NEW WEALTH.

WEALTH CREATED IN THE LAST 20 OR 30 YEARS.

THE UNITED STATES ECONOMIC BOOM IS A STORY OF EACH GENERATION SURPASSING THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF THE PRIOR GENERATIONS.

THIS IS NOT A COUNTRY WITH AN ARISTOCRAT CLASS DEFINED BY INTER-GENERATIONAL WEALTH.

THIS IS MONEY CREATED BY BUSINESSES THAT CREATE THE SOLUTIONS AND PRODUCTS FOR THE PEOPLE OF TODAY.

I LOOK AT THE INCREDIBLE SUCCESS OF STEVE JOBS AND APPLE.

I DON'T BEGRUDGE STEVE JOBS SUCCESS WHEN I USE MY iPHONE EVERY DAY.

I'M GRATEFUL TO HAVE ACCESS TO AN UNBELIEVABLE TOOL IN MY POCKET THAT GIVES ME ACCESS TO THE WEALTH OF HUMANITY AND THE ABILITY TO GET FROM POINT A TO B AS EFFICIENTLY AND QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

MOST OF THE AMERICAN SUCCESS STORIES INVOLVE COMPANIES AND LEADERS SOLVING PROBLEMS AND MEETING THE NEEDS OF AMERICAN CONSUMERS.

WHEN THEY ARE SUCCESSFUL IN DOING SO, I'M GRATEFUL FOR THEIR SUCCESS.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT ECONOMIC MOBILITY BEING A PART OF AMERICA.

IF YOU WERE BORN IN THE '40s OR '50s, YOU HAD AN 80% CHANCE OF DOING BETTER THAN YOUR PARENTS.

NOW YOU HAVE LESS THAN 50% OF DOING BETTER.

DO YOU THINK THIS ABILITY TO HAVE OPPORTUNITY HAS BEEN REDUCED IN THE UNITED STATES?

>> DO YOU REMEMBER THE NAMES OF YOUR TEACHERS IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?

I BET YOU DO.

THEY CARED DEEPLY ABOUT YOUR SUCCESS.

EDUCATION WAS A PRIORITY FOR OUR COUNTRY.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE G. I. BILL, FOR THOSE WHO SERVED OUR NATION IN WORLD WAR II, THEY CAME BACK TO OUR COUNTRY AND HAD ACCESS TO AN EXTRAORDINARY COLLEGE EDUCATION.

THEY THEY WENT ON TO BUILD OUR COUNTRY.

OUR FOCUS ON EDUCATION IS LOST.

IN ILLINOIS, JUST A FEW YEARS AGO, UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF PRITZGER, 53 SCHOOLS HAD NOT ONE CHILD PERFORMING AT GRADE LEVEL.

NOT ONE CHILD AT GRADE LEVEL.

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF ECONOMIC MOBILITY WHEN YOU LEAVE COUNT LESS STUDENTS WITHOUT THE EDUCATION THAT THEY NEED TO SUCCEED IN THE 21st CENTURY?

THAT'S THE ROOT PROBLEM WE NEED TO FIX.

WE NEED TO EDUCATE OUR CHILDREN.

IT'S PART OF THE REASON I'M A SUPPORTER OF SUCCESS ACADEMIES IN NEW YORK.

INNER CITY NEW YORK, THE CHILDREN GO ON TO OUR FINEST UNIVERSITIES RECEIVE A WORLD CLASS EDUCATION.

THEY WILL ENJOY ALL THE BENEFITS OF ECONOMIC MOBILITY THAT THIS COUNTRY HAS TO OFFER.

THEY WILL GO ON TO HAVE GREAT LIVES, IMPACTFUL LIVES, MEANINGFUL LIVES AND LIVES WHERE THEY ENJOY EARNED SUCCESS.

>> DO YOU THINK K THROUGH 12 EDUCATION HAS A DISPARITY IF FUNDING?

PEOPLE WHO ARE WEALTHY GET TO CHOOSE WHY THEIR KIDS GO TO SCHOOL AND OTHER PEOPLE ARE STUCK IN BAD SCHOOLS?

WHAT WOULD YOU DO ABOUT THAT?

>> THE GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA HAS WORKED REALLY HARD TO PUT IN PLACE LEGISLATION THAT GIVES PARENTS CHOICE.

CHOICE BETWEEN CHARTER AND PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

THE ABILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR KIDS HAVE A FAIR OPPORTUNITY WHEN IT COMES TO OPENING THE DOORS IN EDUCATION.

I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT FLORIDA, LOOK AT MISSISSIPPI, I THINK THERE'S A NUMBER OF STATES IN THIS COUNTRY THAT REALLY DO EXEMPLIFY A PASSIONATE FOCUS ON MAKING SURE THAT OUR CHILDREN HAVE A CHANCE TO HAVE A GREAT EDUCATION.

A GREAT EDUCATION, THAT'S THE ON RAMP TO THE AMERICAN DREAM.

>> THE BIG NEWS IN THIS PAST WEEK IN TERMS OF A. I. AND FINANCE IS ANTHROPIC GOING FOR ITS INITIAL PUBLIC OFFERING.

WHAT DO YOU THINK SPECIFICALLY ON ANTHROPIC AND IN GENERAL ABOUT A. I. WHETHER WE MAY BE ENTERING A BUBBLE AND THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME SHAKEOUT?

>> I THINK WE ARE AT A LOGICAL TRANSFORMATION.

A. I. IS WHAT THE RAILROADS WERE TO THE 1840s.

IT'S WHAT THE INTERNET WAS TO 25 YEARS AGO.

THIS IS A PROFOUND TRANSFORMATION OF OUR ECONOMY TAKING PLACE.

ANTHROPIC IS CLEARLY ON THE FRONTIER, LEADING EDGE OF THE TRANSFORMATION.

THEY ARE CONTINUING TO ENHANCE THEIR MODELS AND CAPABILITIES IN A WAY THAT EMPOWERS BOTH CORPORATE AMERICA AND ENTREPRENEURS TO FAR MORE RAPIDLY DEVELOP PRODUCTS, BRING THOSE PRODUCTS TO MARKET SUCCESSFULLY AND TO GROW THEIR BUSINESSES.

ANTHROPIC HAS A REALLY IMPORTANT ROLE TO PLAY IN THE FUTURE OF OUR COUNTRY.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT THE RAILWAYS AND OTHERS COMING ALONG 100, 150 YEARS AGO IN THE LAST GREAT TECHNOLOGICAL BOOM.

MORE THAN I -- I THINK MORE THAN 150 RAILWAYS END UP GOING BANKRUPT DURING THAT PERIOD.

ARE WE GOING TO SEE A SIMILAR SHAKEOUT HERE?

>> ANY TIME YOU HAVE A PROFOUND TRANSFORMATION OF OUR ECONOMY TAKING PLACE, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE AN INCREDIBLE NUMBER OF STARTUPS THAT TRY TO SEIZE THE MOMENT AND BLOUNTMANY ARE GOING TO FAIL.

THE ONES THAT SUCCEED, THOSE BECOME THE COMPANIES THAT LEAD OUR NATION FOR DECADE OR SEINE --CENTURIES TO COME.

>> YOU VOTED FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP BUT NOT WITH A SMILE ON YOUR FACE.

WHAT ARE YOUR QUALMS NOW ABOUT WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS DOING?

HOW ARE YOU BEING INVOLVED IN POLITICS IN YOUR DONATIONS NOW?

>> SO I'M REALLY, REALLY ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT THE FACT THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN SO FOCUSSED ON GROWING THE U. S. ECONOMY.

BUT I DON'T AGREE WITH ALL OF HIS ECONOMIC POLICIES.

FOR EXAMPLE, I THINK OUR POSITION ON TARIFFS HAS BEEN VERY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE IN OUR STANDING IN THE WESTERN WORLD.

WE NEED TO LIFT ALL BOATS ACROSS THE WESTERN WORLD.

WE NEED EUROPE TO DO BETTER.

WE NEED CANADA TO BE MORE SUCCESS.

WE NEED JAPAN'S ECONOMY TO GROW.

WE NEED THE WESTERN WORLD'S ECONOMIES TO GROW TO LIFT ALL BOATS.

THE UNITED STATES WILL DO BETTER WHEN EUROPE DOES BETTER.

THE UNITED STATES WILL DO BETTER WHEN CANADA DOES BETTER.

WE WILL DO BETTER WHEN OUR FRIENDS AND ALLIES SUCCEED.

AMERICAN BUSINESSES AND AMERICAN JOBS WILL PROSPER ON THE BACK OF THAT.

I THINK OUR TARIFF POLICY HAS BEEN ALTHOUGH WELL INTENDED, MISPLACED.

I GIVE THE PRESIDENT GREAT CREDIT FOR SHUTTING THE BORDER WITH MEXICO.

WE BOTH HEARD FOR YEARS, WE COULD NOT CLOSE OUR BORDER.

THEY CLOSED IT IN WEEKS.

CONVERSELY, I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THIS IS STILL A COUNTRY WHERE THE BEST AND BRIGHTEST IN THE WORLD FEEL WELCOME, FEEL COMFORTABLE AND WANT TO BE HERE.

OUR ABILITY TO BRING IN SO MANY TALENTED PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE WORLD HAS BEEN INSTRUMENTAL TO THE SUCCESS OF AMERICAN BUSINESSES.

ROUGHLY HALF OF ALL THE SILICON VALLEY STARTUPS ARE RUN BY IMMIGRANTS OR FIRST GENERATION AMERICANS.

WE WANT THIS TO BE A COUNTRY WHERE THE BEST AND BRIGHTEST CONTINUE TO COME HERE AND TO BUILD.

I WOULD RATHER HAVE THEM HERE ON OUR LAND, PROUD CONTRIBUTORS TO OUR COUNTRY, THAN COMPETING AGAINST THEM ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE.

>> TO WHAT EXTENT DO YOU THINK THAT MONEY, ESPECIALLY TREMELY WEALTHY PEOPLE, HAS DISTORTED AMERICAN POLITICS?

>> I THINK MONEY GIVES PEOPLE THE ABILITY TO SPREAD A MESSAGE.

BUT I THINK ULTIMATELY THE AMERICAN VOTERS ARE VERY GOOD AT DISCERNING WHAT MESSAGES MATTER TO THEM, WHICH MESSAGES MAKE SENSE.

AND THEY VOTE WITH THEIR MINDS AND HEARTS IN A THOUGHTFUL WAY.

I THINK MONEY AND POWER IS MESSAGING.

TO BE CLEAR, TO WIN AN ELECTION, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A MESSAGE THAT RESONATES WITH WHERE THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF THE AMERICAN VOTERS ARE.

>> WHERE ARE YOU PUTTING YOUR MONEY NOW IN POLITICS AS WE LEAD INTO THE MIDTERMS?

>> LOOK, I'M VERY FOCUSED ON POLITICAL LEADERS WHO BELIEVE IN FREEDOM IN BOTH PERSONAL FREEDOM AND THE ABILITY TO PURSUE ONE'S DREAMS AND AMBITIONS IN A FREE MARKET.

I DO WORRY ABOUT THE RISE OF THE DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISTS.

THEIR WILLINGNESS TO ABANDON A FREE MARKET IS ONE STEP TOWARDS THEIR FUTURE WILLINGNESS TO ABANDON OUR PERSONAL RIGHTS.

OUR COUNTRY'S BEEN BUILT ON PERSONAL FREEDOM.

I'M VERY CUSED ON CANDIDATES WHO WILL PROTKT ECT OUR PERSONAL FREEDOMS.

>> DO YOU THINK THERE'S BEEN A CRONY CAPITALISM OR A TYPE OF INVOLVEMENT IN THE ECONOMY BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION THAT GOES AGAINST SOME OF THE FREE MARKET PRINCIPLES YOU HAVE ESPOUSED?

>> I FIND ANY FORM OF CRONY CAPITALISM BY EITHER PARTY IS TO BE --SHOULD BE AVOIDED WITH GREAT CARE.

THAT GOES BACK TO ALL OF OUR SENSE OF WHAT IS FAIR.

WHEN BOTH PARTIES START TO PICK WINNERS AND LOSERS IN CORPORATE AMERICA, WHETHER IT'S THROUGH GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZED LOANS, THE SENSE OF INEQUITY AND THE SMELL OF CORRUPTION STARTS TO FILL THE ROOM.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT OUR POLITICAL LEADERS ON BOTH SIDES, BOTH DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS SHOULD BE VERY THOUGHTFUL AT ALL TIMES NOT TO PICK WINNERS AND LOSERS.

>> DO YOU FEEL SAME WAY ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP'S INVESTMENTS AND TAKING OWNERSHIP STAKES IN CERTAIN CORPORATIONS?

>> THE PRESIDENT SHOULD AVOID OUR COUNTRY USING ITS RESOURCES TO INVEST IN COMPANIES UNLESS ISSUES OF NATIONAL SECURITY ARE AT PLAY.

AGAIN, WE SHOULDN'T BE IN THE BUSINESS OF PICKING WINNERS AND LOSERS IN WASHINGTON.

>> KEN GRIFFIN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

> >> FINALLY, FOUR CONTINENTS, 3 31,000 MILES, CARL BUSHBY IS BACK HOME.

HE RECEIVED A HERO'S WELCOME IN HIS HOMETOWN.

A HUGE HUG FROM HIS MOTHER FOLLOWING HIS EPIC JOURNEY ACROSS THE GLOBE ON FOOT.

THE FORMER PARATROOPER BEGAN IN CHILE IN 1998.

HAS FACED JUST ABOUT EVERY ELEMENT AND TERRAIN IMAGINABLE FROM ING BETWEEN COLUMBIA AND PANAMA, COMPLETING THIS MISSION IS NO SMALL FEAT.

WHAT MADE IT POSSIBLE, THE WONDERFUL PEOPLE HE MET ALONG THE WAY, HE SAYS.

>> WITH ARE E ARE A FANTASTIC SPECIES.

I MET 99.

9999% OF THE BEST OF HUMANITY.

> >> THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.

COM/AMANPOUR.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOOD-BYE FROM LONDON.